“I’ve noticed that a lot of scientists bring up Quantum Mechanics as a way of skirting around uncomfortable topics. We don’t usually talk about religion, so if something weird happens, we talk about physics, lol.”

Hehe.. Yes, I’ve been one of those. It didn’t take long during my university education before I knew I couldn’t talk about spiritual stuff openly. I remember after a party one night, we were 3 people walking home. A student doing his PhD, me doing my master degree in physics and a another one that had a master in engineering. Me and the PhD student started talking about the mysteries of the universe, the strange things going on in quantum mechanics, deeper levels of existence etc. All the time using physics terminology. After we separated from the PhD student, the engineer turned to me and said:
“I’ve never in my life heard anyone talk so much about God as you two did without ever mentioning the word!”.
I had to smile. Basically he was right.

We learn to adapt to the social side of science, so we hide our true fascination in fancy scientific language. But a shovel is a shovel no matter what you call it. Scientists should come out of the closet, especially physicists, who should be honest both to them selves and the public. Richard Conn Henry is a good example of one who did get out. He wrote an essay titled “The mental Universe” in 2005. It made my jaw drop, not so much because of the content, but because it was published by a physicist in Nature!

Anyone interested can find the essay by scrolling down his homepage (search for Mental Universe): http://msx4.pha.jhu.edu/rch.html

Tor

I’m only familiar with Shinzen Young in that Dr Tart has mentioned him quite often in interviews and other material. I have been working on meditation though. It helps quite a lot when I keep up with it, but if I skip a few days I don’t do so well. It seems to be the only thing that I’ve tried that keeps me from craving a cure for my experiences.

The only problem with meditation is that it can bring up some self-realizations that don’t make me very happy sometimes. I’ve found it really helpful to have a counselor to work through some of the tough parts with. If I don’t deal with the bad stuff that comes up, the meditation doesn’t seem to work very well any more. I get kind of stuck.

Thanks for your concern, and for the suggestions. I just started my own blog so I don’t have to do all my venting of frustrations in everyone else’s blogs now . (I’m sure Dr Tart will be happy to know that I’ll try and be on my best behavior in his blog from now on.) My blog is at http://sandstonesquarry.blogspot.com/ , so people can find me there if they don’t find me here.

@Sandy: Something I’ve been thinking of mentioning to you, but keep forgetting… I don’t know if you’re into meditation or are familiar with the work of Shinzen Young? Maybe it can be worthwhile to contact him or follow one of his courses.

I mention this because you told you would like to ‘go back to how things were’ before you started seeing the colours around people and I’ve been listening to the audiobook ‘the science of enlightenment’ by Shinzen Young. There’s a part where he talks about starting to see things that other people don’t see and how he dealt with that (cultivating equanimity). Maybe Shinzen Young or one of his facilitators can help you with what you are experiencing (and resisting)? (http://www.shinzen.org)

It’s nice to see you here again. Thanks for the suggested sites. I do enjoy reading about physics. I’ve noticed that a lot of scientists bring up Quantum Mechanics as a way of skirting around uncomfortable topics. We don’t usually talk about religion, so if something weird happens, we talk about physics, lol.

I have to admit that I was a very bad person today. The graduate students were having a departmental meeting with the chair about our TA duties this term. Typical stuff, the faculty provides the pizza and we sit quietly long enough for them to get through the legally required lecture at the beginning of the term.

After the lecture was over, the topic of religion came up, which seemed more than a little unusual in such company. One of the new students had asked a Muslim student why she wasn’t having any pizza, and she explained that she couldn’t have any because it was Ramadan. She then asked him if he had any religious beliefs, which made the poor kid so uncomfortable. He said that he didn’t think scientists really needed religion to get them through life, since science had most of the answers. She tried to convince him that religion was important too, and I felt sorry for the poor guy, so I said, “I’m pretty sure that science has shown all religious beliefs to be silly nonsense and a waste of time”. That comment got quite a few giggles from everyone. I couldn’t say it and keep a straight face.

Now the Muslim student is a friend of mine, so I could get away with being bad to her. She pointed out that since I wasn’t able to say it with a straight face, that I can’t possibly believe such a thing to be true. But I do know better than to admit to religious or spiritual beliefs in such company, so she couldn’t get me to admit to being anything but a materialistic nerd.

When I listen to skeptics treat parapsychology disrespectfully I sometimes think about how strongly I deny my own experiences and beliefs in public. You know, the whole idea of protesting too much. It kind of makes me wonder if the not-so-amazing-Randi really talks to ghosts when no one else is around.

This whole issue of spirituality, the true nature of reality and how to behave is fascinating. I’ve been thinking about these things myself since I was a child.

For those of you who are interested I’d recommend looking at Alan Wallace’s website: http://alanwallace.org/

He’s a fascinating guy. Having spent many years in Tibet meditating and studying Tibetan Buddhism from his early twenties, he came back and got himself a PhD. He have studied a lot of stuff; physics, religion, psychology, and have tried to integrate it all with his understanding gained from contemplative traditions such as Tibetan Buddhism. He is also the founder of The Santa Barbara Institute for Consciousness Studies. He has some really great lectures, among other things on physics vs. insights gained from meditation (can be found here: http://www.sbinstitute.com/LecturesMP3.html , see “The Conscious Universe”.

I’m in no way trying to force Buddhism on people here. I’ not a Buddhist myself, although I do think some of the meditative traditions in Buddhism can lead you to real insight. Wallace just touches on really interesting topics.

Examples are:

*The link between experience gained through meditation or some similar method and the link to science as described in modern physics.

*What does modern physics say about the “true” nature of the universe

*What do contemplative traditions say?

*What can your own experience tell you?

*How should we proceed to make a real science of the mind, that takes subjectivity seriously?

He is a speaker of great clarity, enthusiasm and actually at the same time seems calm. I guess what he tries to do resonate a lot with me since I’ve had a similar path in life (trying to integrate my understanding of science, especially physics, with my own experience gained through daily life, practise of qigong etc.) And looking at this blog I do think I’m not the only one on this path

So have a go if you’d like

And Sandy, I do think some of the physics stuff Wallace talks about can be interesting to the scientist in you, maybe even help you to open this scientist up a bit.

Tor

I know that I must drive him nuts because when he does get tempted to treat someone badly, even if he has justification for wanting to do so, I’ll get upset about it. The poor man has been cursed with an empathic wife. Even though he doesn’t think that he is affected by other people’s pain, I am. And he doesn’t like to see me upset. So whether he knows it or not, he is affected by other people’s pain, if only by proxy.

I think people are much more aware of each other’s feelings that they like to let on. Because even though I pick up stuff from other people, I think the reverse is true also. When I’m really happy it seems very contagious. I try to hang on to that thought when I’m in a situation where I’m feeling overwhelmed by too much information from the people around me. I figure the best thing I can do is concentrate on sending out happy thoughts and hope they get the message. If everybody is happy, it doesn’t feel like “too much”.

I enjoy participating in the discussions in the comments on this blog so please stir vigorously!

“If I think I can be happy while others suffer, especially if they are suffering as a result of my actions, I’m deeply deluded.”

I think what you’re saying is that because of the ultimate reality of our spiritual nature, because of some type of connectedness among all beings, we can’t be happy hurting other people.

My view is that “we can’t be happy hurting other people” is only really learned from experience, as Sandy wrote in the comments to the previous post: “So being nice or helpful to others makes my life better.”.

It might be learned through life’s experiences (even by materialists), or from direct perception during a mystical experience like an NDE, but both of these are based on experiences.

However I think it’s true that materialist philosophy might confuse someone while spirituality would give them a clue about what is really going on.

So, I’d say that learning it from direct experience is the best way to learn it and that is a very important part of what life is about, but spiritual beliefs will help people find the truth more easily by pointing them in the right direction.