Comments on: How does Zen compare with Vipassana? and Body signals and pain http://blog.paradigm-sys.com/archives/182 Mon, 26 Jul 2010 05:20:20 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: Dr. Charles T. Tart http://blog.paradigm-sys.com/archives/182/comment-page-1#comment-17373 Dr. Charles T. Tart Mon, 24 Aug 2009 18:44:02 +0000 http://blog.paradigm-sys.com/?p=182#comment-17373 <p>@anonymous: </p> <em>There is a certain similarity to fidgeting and letting your mind wander off on a train of thought.</em> It might help us to not be so attached to our precious thoughts if we started thinking of them as "mental fidgeting".... ;-) @anonymous:

There is a certain similarity to fidgeting and letting your mind wander off on a train of thought.
It might help us to not be so attached to our precious thoughts if we started thinking of them as “mental fidgeting”…. Wink

]]> By: anonymous http://blog.paradigm-sys.com/archives/182/comment-page-1#comment-17372 anonymous Mon, 24 Aug 2009 17:56:05 +0000 http://blog.paradigm-sys.com/?p=182#comment-17372 <i>"Zen training starts with concentrative meditation, with a big emphasis on learning to follow the breath, and then it moves into a wider focus that eventually is what we might call a full scale Vipassana , that is, not just the most prominent body sensation, but open minded attention to whatever is happening."</i> I would say based on my experiences at my local Zen center and my reading and practicing of Zen, that this is a fairly reasonable statement. If someone wanted to, they could build an argument focused on the differences between Zen and Vipassana or focused on the similarities - what ever their preference was. But what is really interesting about Zen is that there is this whole component to it which tries to get the practitioner to stop thinking with their reasoning mind. When you try to stop thinking in terms of "similar" or "different", good or bad, liking or disliking, winning or losing, you start to realize how your opinions are often arbitrary and how they create a delusive reality. This also helps you to understand the role the ego plays in that delusion. You also start to see the role of attachments and aversions in that delusion. All of this helps you to let go of attachments, aversions, opinions, ego, attitudes, poses, affectations, which leads to equinimity and a more sincere idea of who you are. <i>"To not respond to the urge to move to make yourself more comfortable is, in a sense, artificial."</i> There is a certain similarity to fidgeting and letting your mind wander off on a train of thought. During meditation you shouldn't just move because you it occurs to you to move, just like you shouldn't follow a train of thought because a thought occurs to you. A lot of fidgeting is not due to pain but due to boredom or habit. It is the bodily analog to a wandering mind. But if you feel pain my opinion is that you shouldn't risk damaging your body. Depending on the type and purpose of the meditation, keeping still can also result in deeper relaxation or attainment of altered states. “Zen training starts with concentrative meditation, with a big emphasis on learning to follow the breath, and then it moves into a wider focus that eventually is what we might call a full scale Vipassana , that is, not just the most prominent body sensation, but open minded attention to whatever is happening.”

I would say based on my experiences at my local Zen center and my reading and practicing of Zen, that this is a fairly reasonable statement. If someone wanted to, they could build an argument focused on the differences between Zen and Vipassana or focused on the similarities – what ever their preference was. But what is really interesting about Zen is that there is this whole component to it which tries to get the practitioner to stop thinking with their reasoning mind. When you try to stop thinking in terms of “similar” or “different”, good or bad, liking or disliking, winning or losing, you start to realize how your opinions are often arbitrary and how they create a delusive reality. This also helps you to understand the role the ego plays in that delusion. You also start to see the role of attachments and aversions in that delusion. All of this helps you to let go of attachments, aversions, opinions, ego, attitudes, poses, affectations, which leads to equinimity and a more sincere idea of who you are.

“To not respond to the urge to move to make yourself more comfortable is, in a sense, artificial.”

There is a certain similarity to fidgeting and letting your mind wander off on a train of thought. During meditation you shouldn’t just move because you it occurs to you to move, just like you shouldn’t follow a train of thought because a thought occurs to you. A lot of fidgeting is not due to pain but due to boredom or habit. It is the bodily analog to a wandering mind. But if you feel pain my opinion is that you shouldn’t risk damaging your body.

Depending on the type and purpose of the meditation, keeping still can also result in deeper relaxation or attainment of altered states.

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